Comments on Losing My Religion: God Is In the Darkness (part 3: "Untitled")

You say you are - a songwriter, musician, minister...

2009-07-14T05:30:53.952-06:00

You say you are - a songwriter, musician, minister and house church pastor you want to add teacher to that as well. May God continue to bless you mighitly Jeff.

I thought this post, The Wondrous Cross, related t...

2009-07-13T16:48:15.945-06:00

I thought this post, The Wondrous Cross, related to some of the thoughts here.

Frankie, :) Don, Thanks for your remarks and refl...

2009-07-11T15:47:13.178-06:00

Frankie,
:)

Don,
Thanks for your remarks and reflections here. As a point of clarifying...the brilliance of God that you have described, a brilliance that evokes even fear, is a good description. The "light" I'm bored with isn't what I'd call inoffensiveness or niceness, as much as I'd call it superficiality.

The personal darkness you have described, I recognize to be what mystics labeled the "dark night of the soul." I have gone through such a season, I believe as a direct answer to a very sincere prayer I prayed: "God I want more; I want to go deeper." :) It was such an intense and extended season that I don't think anyone who has not experienced it can relate to it. This, also, is why I think I react negatively to the mamby-pamby superficiality put forth by modern-day Christianity. It seems so fake and bubble-gum and doesn't do justice to the depths of God.

I came out of that season with all my religious crutches broken and leaning upon God, and am in the process still of being remade from all the stuff I once thought this life was about, that fell by the wayside during that dark period.

Jeff, I'm enjoying this series, even though I'm n...

2009-07-11T13:06:02.880-06:00

Jeff,

I'm enjoying this series, even though I'm not as comfortable as you are with *exploring* the "dark" aspects of human experience.

That may be because I've had some encounters with God that revealed to me more of the brilliance of his light, his beauty. Because of these, I'm gravitating to God's light and beauty more than before. I realize that what I used to think was his "light" was really just "niceness". In what I've experienced from God, his light conveys such a powerful holiness and purity that, without the presence of the Spirit of Jesus, this light is terrifying, as by its nature it reveals what is not light in me. I think Isaiah, Job, Ezekiel, Daniel and John all tried to describe their responses to encounters with God's pure-light holiness.

Therefore, I think what you're tired/bored of isn't really God's light, but the standard interpretation of what that light connotes: niceness, inoffensiveness, conformity to accepted standards. In other words, American Christianity-as-usual.

I also want to suggest that through your desire to push past understandings that no longer work for you (spiritual warfare based on fear, understanding of God based on surface-level definitions of light/holiness), the Lord is calling to you, to enter a much deeper relationship with him. This relationship would be something that's been tagged "contemplative" or "mystical," though those tags have been misconstrued by many who have never entered that phase of the relationship with God.

The contemplative relationship includes - it's almost defined by - experience of the hidden side of God, in which frustration over dryness, desire to move beyond earlier understandings of God, desire to move into something deepr with God, etc., come to the fore. Old ways somehow no longer work, but you don't yet know the new ways. You can't explain to friends what God is doing, and you can't seem to "find" him anymore.

This experience is perfectly expressed by the word "darkness," and the paradox of seeking the God of light in personal darkness (not "evil" as darkness, but simply the absence of a clearly understood path or clear hearing of God's voice).

Moses expressed this experience perfectly on Mt. Sinai/Horeb, when he wrote in Exodus 20, "The people remained at a distance [from the mountain on which God was manifesting his presence through trumpet blasts, fire and earthquakes], while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was." (Note "the thick darkness where God was" -- God was IN the darkness.)

Forty years later, Moses recalled to the next generation how their fathers met God on the mountain, when God spoke out of fire and darkness: "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness."(Deut 4)
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"When you secretly listen to your kids' radio stat...

2009-07-11T09:23:29.745-06:00

"When you secretly listen to your kids' radio stations...now that's something."

your a heathen.... :)

Frankie, Welcome to the hypocrites club. :) Altho...

2009-07-10T17:09:24.197-06:00

Frankie,
Welcome to the hypocrites club. :) Although listening to music once "banned" 18 years ago isn't too much of an offense...yesterday's rock is today's country, apparently. :D When you secretly listen to your kids' radio stations...now that's something. ;) Thanks for the comment.

Sarah,
I am very aware of how Greek thinking/philosophy affects our modern view of Scripture; I did not put together that Greek art influences our tendency to filter out the darker themes. Insightful!

Bang on. Really enjoying the series, Jeff. There i...

2009-07-10T16:24:07.123-06:00

Bang on. Really enjoying the series, Jeff. There is a real element of denial in Christian culture that is not found in the Bible - nor in the ministry of Jesus.

In fact, this cultural attribute that only wants to see pretty, happy things keeps us back from the fullness of the gospel.

The cross is not pretty and happy. There is no resurrection without pain and death. But our Western heritage gets in the way. Greek culture emphasizes beauty (look at ancient Greek art) and niceness and all of that. But this is only half of the picture of life in a fallen world. There can be no real redemption as long as we are in denial about falleness and shame and hurt - the dark stuff.

And yes, creatively, I'm bored to death with the sanitized, unreal, hellenistic-Christian version. It's not authentic.

i have enjoyed this lil series. 5 stars brother.. ...

2009-07-10T10:01:27.386-06:00

i have enjoyed this lil series. 5 stars brother..

darkness. im thinking that the garden of gethsemane was a dark place for the Lord.

ive always wanted to write the story of Jesus 40 days in the dessert. a journal type thing. (they didnt have blogs back then, but even a blog type thing)The dessert must have been dark at times. did Jesus feel hurt, alone, abandoned.
was he hopeful?

im guessing it was a dark place during His beating too.

we know it was dark (not the absence of light) at a point during the crucifixion.

im still along side ya on your journey. my ipod has stuff on it i told my daughter to not listen to 18 years ago....i must be a hypocrite.

You are Loved
Brother Frankie